Stedman Podcast - Benefits of SQL Server managed services

Recording Date: 9/25/2024
Topic: Benefits of SQL Server managed services
Hosts – Steve Stedman / Shannon Lindsay
Guest – Craig Buchner

Steve Stedman and Craig Buchner discuss the benefits of SQL Server managed services, emphasizing stability, optimization, security, and business continuity. They highlight that managed services act as a cost-effective alternative to hiring full-time DBAs, offering comprehensive support for SQL servers. Key points include the ability to handle corruption repairs, performance optimization, and cloud migrations. Stedman Solutions has never lost a managed services client and has expanded its team to meet client needs. They stress the importance of proactive monitoring and expert team collaboration. Craig advises considering the cost of downtime and the expertise of managed service providers.

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Podcast Transcript – Benefits of SQL Server managed services

Steve Stedman 0:00
Music.

Welcome to this week’s Stedman solutions SQL video podcast where we’re going to take a deep dive into the world of SQL Server and everything you need to know about managing, optimizing and securing your databases. Today’s episode is going to be a real treat. We’re pulling back the curtain on one of our most important yet often misunderstood aspects of SQL Server Management, benefits of SQL Server managed services. Shannon Lindsay, my assistant will be the co host this week, helping keep the conversation going. Welcome Shannon.

Shannon Lindsay 0:47
Hello everyone.

Steve Stedman 0:49
And this week’s guest is Craig Buchner, our VP of sales, marketing and partner relations. Welcome to Craig.

Craig Buchner 0:58
Hi everybody.

Steve Stedman 0:59
So buckle up, because we’re about to explore why SQL Server managed services could be a game changer for your business needs. All

Shannon Lindsay 1:07
right. Well, welcome everybody, Steve, can you explain to me what exactly our managed services is?

Steve Stedman 1:16
Yeah, on this one, I think let’s, I mean, I can certainly explain that. But let’s hand that but let’s hand that one to Craig, because I think that was, I think Craig was ready to answer that one. Weren’t you, Craig?

Craig Buchner 1:25
Yeah, I’d love to. So when we’re talking about managed services, Stedman solutions will come into a customer environment and first stabilize it, then move into optimization, so getting performance where it needs to be secure the environment, work with the customer to develop a robust business continuity plan and then maintain the environment. So what is included in the SQL Server managed services is any patches that need to be done, complete maintenance of the environment, upgrading versions and all the DBA work that goes with that, any kind of corruption repair that’s needed, performance optimization, as well as if at any point the customer chooses to migrate Their SQL server to the cloud. All that is included as part of your managed service, anything you want to add? Steve,

Steve Stedman 2:28
yeah, so really, the way I think about this is, I mean, everyone’s familiar with software as a service or data as a service, or platform as a service, but I like to think of our managed services as DBA as a service. So if you were to have a full time DBA, or several full time DBAs, really what we’re doing here is the job that those that those people would do, it’s an alternative to having that full time DBA to be doing everything to take care of your SQL servers. Gotcha. Okay?

Shannon Lindsay 2:58
And how did Stedman solutions come to be in from there, essentially develop this managed service offering?

Steve Stedman 3:08
Well, about nine and a half years ago, I started Stedman solutions, and I was doing freelance consulting and just, you know, hourly kind of time billing, and that evolved got to the point where we had more work than I could do. And then I brought in Derek, who was the first team member. And then from there, it evolved into more like comprehensive and ongoing taking care of the SQL server type maintenance. And one of our clients came back and said, Hey, can we do this on a fixed fee on a monthly basis, and so that we can plan and budget around it. And I looked at that and at how other people were doing it, and I said, Yeah, we can do this, and we can be different. We can give you full coverage. We’ll take care of all of your SQL servers for one flat fee. And then that first client was, I think, in late 2018 or early 2019 and we took that on as a fixed rate kind of thing, and that became what we now offer as SQL Server managed services with a whole lot more clients than just that one that we came on with. It evolved, and there’s, there’s been a lot that we’ll get to in a little bit about what we’ve done to kind of make that service fit for all those client needs.

Shannon Lindsay 4:19
Yeah, it’s definitely grown over the last five years. What is something that you you’re really most proud of when it comes to this, this service? Well, I

Steve Stedman 4:29
think one of the things with our managed service is that nobody’s ever canceled, and it’s not because we trap people in like a cell phone plan where you can’t get away from it, because, I mean, once people are in, yeah, you don’t have to stay. But we’ve never had one of our managed service clients cancel, and that’s a real good feeling. We’ve certainly had their business needs change, where we’ve had to change the number of servers up one or two or down one or two on a monthly basis as their business changed. But. But we have to date, never had a managed service client cancel on us. Everyone who’s ever signed up is still with us and appears to be very happy. And that’s as far as being proud, that’s one of the things I think I’m the most proud of. So

Shannon Lindsay 5:15
yeah, what are some of the milestones and like, things that you consider a success?

Steve Stedman 5:23
Well, I think a big part of it was allowing us to expand the team. When we first started doing managed services, it was just Derek and I, and you can only do so much with two people. I mean, even the best DBAs, if you’ve only got two of them, you don’t have quite as in depth of coverage as you would have, then that evolved, and we added Laura, and we’ve added Eric, and we’ve added a couple other team members, George and Mitchell now as well. And with that, we’ve been able to bring in people with varying skill sets, so that if there’s an area that I’m weak in, or Derek’s weekend, that they can have better coverage on that. And there’s different skills in SQL Server that people have different abilities on. And the other thing was, with that, the other milestone was, even through covid, we were expanding our services, I like to say working remotely before covid made it popular. And I mean, we’ve been working remotely well before covid, and we didn’t have any business drop. I mean, we actually grew and expanded during covid, and we were able to help a lot of businesses stick around now. The other thing was, through the evolution of bringing more clients on and working with more and more people in managed services, we were able to integrate database health monitor and our daily monitoring process into a unified alerting system for our managed services clients. So for someone out there using database health to monitor today, they only get, I mean, they get that, that real time view and what you can see in the application. But for our managed service customers, we have an extra level of reporting where we report status back up to a cloud based server, and that’s used for status and alerting, so that when something comes up, we can alert our team, or it will alert our team and the client, and we can jump in and take care of it. And oftentimes that leads to us jumping in and telling the client, hey, there’s something wrong. We’re fixing it right now, and it’s taken care of, rather than the client coming to us and saying, there’s something wrong. And then another big milestone was in 2024 this year, just recently, we added our partner program, which is a way to bring partners in other companies who have SQL server needs but don’t have the SQL Server expertise in the managed services space to be able to refer their customers to us, or bring their customers to us so we can take care of their customers as well as our customers. And Craig was instrumental in making that happen. Yay, Craig.

Shannon Lindsay 7:53
So one thing you mentioned was basically the Managed Services kind of is not replacing but it’s like hiring a DBA. So if somebody’s kind of on the fence of, okay, why not just hire a DBA or go with the managed service offering? Why? What? What are some key things that they should think about in that decision? I’ll

Craig Buchner 8:18
take that one,

the first thing I would consider is, how much lost time can you afford? Because you really need to be able to hire more than one DBA, because at any any point that your DBA is sleeping on vacation, at the doctor’s appointment, and all of a sudden there’s a crash, or the performance completely drops. There’s ripple effects of impact, which we’re going to talk about later, that you really need to make a hard decision about, what can you afford to lose? So therefore, in order to replicate, or try and replicate, what Stedman solutions would offer you, you’d have to get at least one senior DBA and a junior DBA, so that you have redundancy. And then you need to make sure that that person, the senior DBA, has enough expertise in various customer environments that they can anticipate and handle any kind of emergency that comes up. They also need to think about scalability. How are they going to manage the environment as the needs change throughout the organization, and also risk management? So are they thinking about what’s the very worst that can happen in putting in place a business continuity plan? So those would be some factors somebody would have to think about if they’re going to try and do it on their own, considering managed services. On the other hand, I. You’re getting it at a fraction of what all that cost would be, your downtime will be dramatically less. Because, for instance, with Stedman solutions, our folks have expertise in corruption, repair and failover, in replication, in all these different aspects, as Steve already alluded to across the team, and they’re constantly in different customer environments, so they’re seeing best of breed practices on how to mitigate all those issues.

Steve Stedman 10:30
Good point, Craig, and just let me share a short story there with an example of a client, one of our managed service clients, where we had an issue with corruption and a lot of time. I mean, I did the database corruption challenge years ago, and we’re kind of a leader in the corruption space, and we do a lot of corruption repair, but this client had corruption on their SQL Server. It would have impacted hundreds and hundreds of Office users if they had been in the normal style of corruption, takes the database down, and then you eventually spend days doing the repair on it. But because we had the right practices put in place with our managed services, with our backups, with our processes, we were able to basically restore while that system was running, restore that corrupt database, play through on the transaction logs to get past where the corruption occurred and then take the system offline briefly while we switch the restored database for the real database and had less than an hour of downtime. That’s the kind of care we take for managed service customers, where previously in the old world, they would have eventually, after a couple weeks of running on that corrupt database, realized the whole system crashed and was down, called us or called someone else to do corruption repair, but we detected it, we found the issues, we fixed it, and got it going with minimal downtime, versus being down for days, which would have been catastrophic for that business. So one of the things that when we talk about those key factors that Craig just talked through on managed services is that we have a white paper that covers a lot of those kind of areas. Of what do you want to look at if you’re looking at managed services, and what we can do? Shannon, could you send the link out to everyone who’s registered and watching the live stream when we’re done here? But we’ll also put a link to it in the video for those who watch it later. But if you want to download that white paper, you can get to it at the URL of stedman.us/maintaining,

and it’s https://Stedman.us/maintaining,

and that’s our maintaining SQL Server white paper, which covers a lot of the things that we’re talking about here, so just keep that in mind. Yeah, yeah,

Shannon Lindsay 12:43
I’ll definitely add that and send it off to the registries. So one of the common factors that I’ve kind of heard you talk about is maintaining the environment of your SQL Server. So with essentially having multiple customers and stuff. What are some common challenges that you’re you’re seeing?

Steve Stedman 13:06
Yeah, so one of the common things that we run into is people think their systems are in better shape than they really are, because, gee, they’ve been running for a year or two years, or whatever it may be, and they’ve never had an outage. Well, the reality is that might be just good luck in a lot of cases. And so what we really focus on is analyzing what’s important and making sure I always refer to it as if it was a full time DBA. What are the things that would get that DBA fired or put the company out of business? And with that, it covers backups and business continuity are huge in the beginning of the process, because we want to make sure that every one of our clients is in a position that whatever type of failure they have, that we have a way to get them back and running, whether that failure is corruption in a database or whether the failure is a whole virtual machine being lost. For some reason, we want to make sure that we have the right process to cover that. An example of this one of our clients that we worked with, we were probably, gosh, it was about month two or month three into the process, and we’d got all their backups going well, we’d worked out their business continuity plan. We’d built out servers at a second facility in a different city for them. And even though they’d never had an outage at their primary site like this before, their primary site had a massive outage and their primary servers went down, we were able to quickly get them flipped over and running on the second servers at that second site with no data loss, and to get them running very rapidly on that where had they not been a managed service customer, they would have been in a position where they only had that single data center, and they would have had to wait the two or three days that it took to get that original data center back up and running, rather than being able to flip over to that second site. We have so many stories around things like that that they would have been in way worse shape. Had we not been involved in helping them with that? And I think that our biggest focus there is really on educating the clients and making sure that they have solid backup and business continuity plans, as well as understanding the risk and all of that so that you can figure out, do you need a high availability system? Do you need a disaster recovery site and working through all of that so that when things do go bad, it’s not a game over scenario for the client. It’s just a slight blip while we get things running again.

Shannon Lindsay 15:27
Yeah, and I know that you had said throughout time, a lot of the times the customer needs change too. And I mean, in today’s age, technology is constantly changing too. So how do these challenges essentially go along with all of that? How do they evolve through that? Yeah.

Craig Buchner 15:48
Shannon, the key message for everybody you hear is that we’re flexible, so we one can bring in team members with special skills to address the customer’s challenges. But in terms of if their needs change, and they may need fewer or more SQL servers to be managed by us, we’re happy to adjust the relationship or the agreement that we have with them and just change it accordingly. So it’s not a contract, as Steve said, that you can’t get out of Yeah, yeah,

Shannon Lindsay 16:25
that’s good. Nobody likes to have to call the customer service all the time and try and negotiate that once a month to change costs and all that. What are some trends that you can continually see with a lot of these customers, a lot of the managed service customers.

Steve Stedman 16:49
Well, I think the big thing there is really just the lack of in house expertise. And I don’t mean that that is a put down for any of our clients, because, I mean, SQL Server is really a specialty thing, and you may have some great developers or great IT people, or great business managers, but they don’t really have that in depth SQL expertise that’s needed to keep a SQL Server or many SQL servers running well. Now, oftentimes our clients are kind of in that position of too big to run without some kind of a some kind of help, but too small to hire a full time DBA and I think that that’s kind of one of those spots that we can help quite a bit. If you’re one of those companies that has 30 DBAs on your staff, well, we’re probably not the right people for you, but if you’re one of those people who has 30 SQL servers and maybe zero to one or two DBAs, well we can help in a big way. In that kind of a scenario, if you have one or two SQL servers, or even four or five SQL servers, I mean, that’s the size that oftentimes you’re not big enough to need a full time or to be able to afford a full time DBA, but you can afford a managed services package like what we offer there. The other thing is that even if you do have a single full time DBA or you’re considering hiring one, you only have one person covering that, and when we do it, we typically put three or four DBAs assigned to each client. And this isn’t just a pool of people that were swapping in and out regularly. This is your dedicated team that is taking care of your SQL Server on a managed services basis, and that way, when one of those team members goes on vacation, well, you still have two or three other team members that are helping you. When one of those team members is out sick or at the doctor or just away for the day, you’ve got two or three other people taking care of your system, not just that one person, and that’s a big deal. I mean, for me, there’s been times that I I mean, I just went to the dentist the other day, and when I was at the dentist, I saw some messages come in from a client right as I was going in for my exam. And I thought, Okay, we’ve got a team. We got it covered. I don’t have to cancel my dentist appointment or ignore the client. I know the rest of the team is going to be taking care of them, and that’s a super important thing, I think, for any kind of managed services. And the trend there is really that they don’t know what they need until they see what what we offer.

Shannon Lindsay 19:09
Yeah, and definitely a very like you said, dedicated team. It the response time is awesome. The just dedication to the customers, making sure every they’re getting what they need when they need it. And it’s not often you have more than one person to be able to do that. Yeah. So no, I mean,

Steve Stedman 19:30
well, just another note on that. Sorry to jump in there. Shannon, I’m just kidding. You’re even part of that process as my assistant. I mean, people don’t realize that, but if people are emailing me saying, Hey, I’ve got an issue, or they’re calling me as my assistant, you’re able to catch those messages, and if I’m unavailable, like Monday, when I was at the dentist, you’re able to take those things and redirect them to the other team members if they’re not seeing them right away. And I think that also is a huge help for managed services customers.

Shannon Lindsay 19:56
Yeah, get them what they need when they need it. Yep. Yeah, so with a lot of that, how does cloud adaption, security, performance optimization, how does that change for each customer’s needs?

Steve Stedman 20:12
Well, we take the approach that every customer is unique, and I think that’s I mean, we don’t have a cookie cutter process that we try and force everyone into what we do is we, I mean, we do have a lot of reusable processes, but we’re not forcing any client into a specific process there. We’re adapting that to meet their specific needs. The thing with cloud adoption is that there’s a lot of people who are giving up on the on premise SQL Server, and they’re moving to the cloud, and we help with that. I think the thing with cloud pricing is that once you’re in the cloud, oftentimes when you have performance issues or growth or things like that, it’s easy. If you have unlimited budget, you just throw more money at your SQL Server, and it becomes faster. And every time you need to do that, your cost doubles, whether depending on hosting facility and things like that. But the reality is, most people don’t have unlimited budget, and rather than doubling the cost to your SQL Server every six months or every year, what we’re able to do is take care of the care and feeding of that SQL server so that we can take care of those performance issues before they get out of control. We can take care of those things that are growing and scaling that need help before it becomes too expensive. I mean, we’ve seen a lot of times where we get involved and the cloud server pricing is so expensive that we can help them reduce the cost by reducing the size of the cloud server, the CPUs that they need on that cloud server. I think people say moving to the cloud, you don’t have to worry about so many things, but that’s only true if you have unlimited budget, and we can help keep that cloud budget more under control by keeping the servers performing well, I think security is one of those things that it’s becoming a bigger deal if we lived in a world where there was no ransomware and no bad people, and nobody out there trying to hack your system. Well, we wouldn’t really worry about security too much, but the fact is, we do live in that world, and we’ve seen clients get hit with ransomware, and we’ve helped them recover. We’ve seen different security issues, and we know how to go in and secure your SQL Server and get it locked down so that you have less issues when those type of things happen. My goal is that if someone gets hit with ransomware, we want to make sure your SQL servers are not your worry. You’ve got to worry about the rest of the business needs. We want to make sure that that your databases are secured, so that when bad things happen, it prevents them from being worse than they really would be.

Shannon Lindsay 22:40
And earlier, we had talked about, you know, do you hire a D a full time DBA, or do we offer the managed services? So with that, Craig, what do you think? What are some of the biggest decisions that you know, a customer really needs to be thinking about when deciding between the two.

Craig Buchner 23:02
Yeah, since we touched on this earlier, to some degree, I want to drill down into the cost of downtime. So downtime is more than just your SQL server is down. It means there’s loss of productivity to your organization, because a lot of systems or applications are going to be utilizing the data in the SQL Server. There’s also financial loss, probably most of all, there’s customer trust, because the customers may feel the effects of what happens, because your SQL servers are down, whether they’re trying to process a transaction or utilize some capability you offer, or because maybe somebody steals their information, and now their privacy rights are affected. There’s also data loss, and there can be fines that go along with that, and then just reputational damage, because chances are the words going to get out that there was some kind of corruption or some kind of downtime occurred that caused damage to the company, and it’s going to scare away potential customers. So again, it goes back to how much time can you afford to lose? Yeah, what? What’s

Shannon Lindsay 24:29
some advice that you would give a customer when they’re in that process of, you know, deciding between the two or what different managed service providers there might be out there. What’s what’s some advice you might give them?

Craig Buchner 24:44
Yeah, great question. So when they’re trying to decide, of all the different managed service providers that do SQL, which one to go with, here’s some thoughts I have. Is SQL Server, a true competency? Does. They have deep expertise in it. Are they continually trying to improve and refine their processes, or is it just one of many offerings? What is the level of expertise that their DBAs have? How many years of experience? How many DBAs are they going to assign you? Like in the case of Stedman solutions, you’re typically going to get three or more DBAs. So it’s not just about coverage in case something happens and somebody’s out, but also that collaboration of ideas along with the customer on how to fix the problem. Also, you know, will the managed service provider be giving you any monitoring and alerting tools? A lot of them don’t, and you need to think about that cost, because they’re generally two to $5,000 per year per SQL Server. So it can be very expensive, and that’s a cost most people don’t think about also, what does support look like? Is somebody going to take your call when you have a problem? You know, how often are you allowed to seek help? What is their SLA to respond back to you? And what happens if it’s after business hours? Is is that going to be included? Are they going to pick up the phone and call you right back? Are they going to make you, make you wait until the next business day again? How much downtime can you afford to lose? Another thing to consider is, are they going to transfer knowledge along the way, or are they going to purposely try and keep you dependent on them. That’s another thing. And then last of all, I’ll wrap up with you know, what is the pricing model? Is it a per hour charge where you could be potentially nickel, nickel and dimed, because consider like, version updates, corruption, repairs, encryption, those are all examples of very time intensive activities, and that could quickly increase the amount of budget that you’re going to need for that particular managed service provider. Or do they charge per SQL Server? And it’s an all inclusive model like Stedman solution. Thanks,

Shannon Lindsay 27:23
Craig that was, that was good information.

Now, you know, one of the things that we offer is a team. We have a team of these DBAs assigned to you and your services. Craig, what kind of team? Or, sorry, not. Craig, thank you. Craig Steve, what kind of team does that take?

Steve Stedman 27:46
Oh, that’s good question, because there are a lot of varying skilled database administrators out there, and it takes people who have experience in a lot of different environments. How often do you find a DBA that has experience with replication, with Report Server, with configuring availability groups, with dealing with high availability, with log shipping and with corruption repair? I mean, that’s a pretty big list, and I think that most DBAs out there have some experience with one of those, or two of those, or several of those, but you’re not going to get a any single DBA, usually, with who has experience in all of those. And so part of it is we have varying skills and experience on the DBA. As we say, that most of our team members have over 20 years experience with SQL Server. A couple of us are over 30 years, or at least, I’m over 30 years of experience with it. And with that, there’s a big difference in hiring a DBA that’s been working on the same server or the same couple of servers, for 20 years, versus hiring a team that’s worked with dozens to hundreds of SQL servers over the last five or 10 years. The experience is, is vast. When you get someone who’s worked on the same server for for or through upgrading the process over the last 20 years, there’s only so many things they see. They only see what’s going to happen in that one environment. With the team we have, we have people who regularly work on so many different environments that we have the experience there. And when a customer asks us, well, what do you think about high availability, or what do you think about disaster recovery, or what do you think about setting up a second site? Things like that, rather than answering with just one thing that we know how to do, we give the options, and depending on which option is chosen, we may bring in different team members in order to be able to fill the needs of that specific option. I think that, yeah, really, it’s just you need someone who’s experienced in all of those environments, where as you bring in any one person, and they’re going to take time to come up to speed, and they’re only going to know so many things, where, with a team of two or three or four people, you. We’re able to have a much stronger combined resume or combined skill set with all of those people involved.

Shannon Lindsay 30:05
Now, why is having a good team and an experienced team, having those specialized skills and the experiences and having tools like database, health monitor that we offer? Why is something like that important?

Steve Stedman 30:24
Well, the big factor on that is being able to be proactive on addressing issues, being able to with our combination of skills, team members and monitoring, through database, health monitor, our daily monitoring and other things, to be able to be informed when there’s an issue. I just noticed while we’ve been recording this, I saw a teams message pop up from two of our team members saying, Hey, who’s taking care of the low disk issue for this client? Well, we have the right alerting so we know about that before the client even knows about it. And I know that there’s team members working on it, because I saw that pop up just in the bottom of my screen while we’ve been recording the show right now, I know it’s being taken care of, and we have the tools. I mean, with database health monitor, it’s something I’ve built over the last 13 years now, I think, or to be able to report and show where the issues are and give us the tools to to change it from reactive to be proactive. The difference between the client calling up and saying, Hey, we’ve been down for an hour to us fixing the problem and telling the client we fixed it before any outage occurred, that’s really the key thing that the combination of the team and the monitoring tools gives us there. Yeah, now

Shannon Lindsay 31:41
that we’ve covered all of you know, a lot of reasons why, a lot of key factors, what? What are your main points of takeaways for somebody considering doing the managed service options?

Steve Stedman 31:57
Yeah. So really, the key here is that we give people a cost effective way to have their SQL Servers taken care of, and an alternative to hiring a DBA. And it’s not just an equal alternative. It’s a much more powerful alternative than hiring a DBA. The other thing is we take away the stress away from the IT managers or the lead or the business owner, or whoever is the one that’s currently stressing over the databases. And this next part here, we allow our clients to sleep better at night. And you know that when I first heard that, I thought that sounds corny, but after having several of our managed service clients, not just one, not just two, but three or more. Tell me that what we offer them is that they can sleep better at night knowing their systems are taken care of completely unprompted. They’ve multiple clients have told me that, and when we started doing this, I didn’t realize that that was what we were doing, is allowing our clients to sleep better at night. And it’s, it’s, it’s a big thing. Gosh, I think of times I was working at other companies that if I could have had a way to sleep better at night, I would have just done anything to take that. So that’s kind of final thoughts. There is that we take the stress away. It’s cost effective. And, yeah, our clients sleep better at night than with us involved than before we were involved. Yeah,

Shannon Lindsay 33:24
yeah. Now I know we covered a lot. Thank you, Craig, thank you, Steve, for answering some questions. If there’s further questions for our listeners, where, where can they find out some more information?

Steve Stedman 33:37
Yeah, to start with, follow up with Craig. His email is Craig at Stedman solutions.com and we’ll get that on screen for the live the streaming of it, but just Craig at Stedman solutions.com or if you can’t remember that, or don’t, don’t have a way to write it down, just go to Stedman solutions.com go to our contact page, and there’s information there with both Craig’s contact info and my contact info as well. So reach out to us. If you have questions. We’re, we’re happy to help. If you’re looking at another managed service provider, let us know. And we’ll, we’ll, we’ll help you figure out if that’s the right decision or not. We are here to help our clients and help our clients sleep better at night. And yeah, we’re there for you.

Shannon Lindsay 34:23
Yeah, well, thank you both.

Lot of really good information covered today, so I just appreciate both of you being here answering questions.

Craig Buchner 34:34
Yeah, thank you. Shannon, thank you to everybody tuned in. Yep. Thanks

Steve Stedman 34:38
for listening. And Craig, thanks for being our guest this week, and maybe we’ll have you back in a few months. And Shannon, thanks for hosting. Have a great day. Everyone. All right. Bye, y’all you.

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